Looks like maybe they ARE planning gay characters...?

[spookyfbi]

Sunhawk posted this on another thread (sorry for not crediting you earlier, and thanks aolian for the heads up) and I'm wondering if the writers were planing on giving us gay characters all along

http://www.afterelton.com/blog/michaeljense/no-gay-character-star-trek-sequel


In the interview, Roberto Orci says "We’re aware of it, we’d like to see it and your support will be noted because it allows us to go back to the powers that be and go - when we finally hit this directly, you better support it." He's pretty much asking for a petition like the one we have that shows how many fans are in favour of gay characters in Star Trek.

In light of the fact that the writers seem very open to gay characters, I think that this is a better way to go. I'm curious now to see what they are planning.

[Larxenne]

Quoting spookyfbi from the other thread: "Look, the fans support it, so STFU, we're writing it!"

I hope that's what our petition does!

And as far as the important gay characters vs. K/S in particular debate goes, while I think K/S is obviously there in TOS and would * love * for the screenwriters to go along with the precedent established (at least keep their epic friendship...which it looks like, from the story arc of the 2009 movie, they are doing), it is ultimately their film and I would welcome any good representation of LGBT characters.

I think we should keep K/S in the petition with the caveat being that a precedent for their relationship was established in TOS, but welcome any other good LGBT representation. Indeed, just give the writers the fan support they need to make it happen!

[Pirate College Graduate]

That would be great if this were true, and I would accept anything above Ricky Redshirt that involved LGBT. However, I still whole-heartedly believe in K/S (not enforcing it, but definitely suggesting it) and I will continue to stick by it, through any rough patch that is thrown our way. I mean it.

However, this is promising news, and I hope it is confirmed in the near future.

"And let me just add, giving us a minor ensign who kisses his partner in a scene only to beam down to an alien planet where he is promptly killed, does not count. Given the franchise's ridiculous exclusion of gay characters for five decades, they owe us big time."


YES! I love how this person realizes this as well. And the fact that this is from LAST year makes me more hopeful than ever!

Lindsay

[art.nerd]

I just noticed that the article was dated from 2008...which means they're talking about the 2009 movie...the one that just came out...and had no gay characters....so I think our petition will be a firm reminder of the fact that they were considering it at one point. It will make them want to reconsider, and maybe this time, they'll make the right desicion. ;)

[Steamcry]

I just noticed that the article was dated from 2008...which means they're talking about the 2009 movie...the one that just came out...and had no gay characters....so I think our petition will be a firm reminder of the fact that they were considering it at one point. It will make them want to reconsider, and maybe this time, they'll make the right desicion. ;)

That might not be entirely true. By 2008 surely they've pretty much had the script drawn up and are filming. The second movie is set to be released in 2011, but they want the script done before 2009 ends and have the next year to film/edit/develop.

In any case, it makes a nice point for our statement. Examples are always good things.

[Lance]

Oh, dude. You have no idea how much motivation this gives me. (I agree with Ryan, this is about 2009 Trek, so either they or the studio chickened out).

If the studio is needing fan support, here it is, right here. I can't wait to shine this big flashy petition in their faces and say "Hey look, Paramount, stop being stupid!"

I'm also glad he mentioned the fact that Ensign Ricky does NOT count.

We should get in touch with this blogger and see if he'll help spread the word about our cause.

Thoughts on how to go about contacting this guy?

[Pirate College Graduate]

Thoughts on how to go about contacting this guy?

If he gives an email address in his blog I would say that is the first and best way to go. Send him a nice, long, professional email.

Lindsay

[Oni]

Are they Just going to randomly Change a character? If it is then that will kinda have them continuing my theory that they are just preforming Cannon rape on Star Trek and are just changing the characters for the sake of some sort of stupid Drama. (E.g Mary SuHura) And that's not what I want. I sound a bit like a hypocrite when I say this, but hear me out still.

I also don't want some random new character or villain appear and say they are gay, and they will probably end up writing in Gay villain. Because that's usually how Hollywood rolls when they write Homosexuals in Action Movies(WTF? Star trek? an Action movie?). They are either the comedy relief, the Villain, or really really hot chicks half naked and making out in some mud for the male characters to stare at. Which is another reason why I joined SEE, to see that stereotype end.

If the Character is written as Bisexual that will keep with TOS Cannon and make some what sense, and who else is better written for bisexual roles than Spock and Kirk? They Obviously are attracted to each other, but are also attracted to women. Plus of all, I believe that Bisexuality keeps up with Gene's idea of 'Love is Universal' and that you love who you love.

[Lance]

I don't think they'd necessarily change a character. They'd just show us another dimension.

This reminds me of a little scene I had in my mind... and now I feel compelled to type it out.

This is half joke, half serious.

INT - ENTERPRISE: MESS HALL - NIGHT
Enter the MESS HALL, where there is blossoming activity occurring. People are talking with one another, generally enjoying themselves, as this is their dinner time. Time to relax. The CAMERA walks in at a medium tempo and walks around a crowd of tables. We don't know who the camera is exactly following, but we're clearly in the EYES OF SOMEONE. The CAMERA changes upon another turn. We see a shot of the man's face, as he walks right past the CAMERA. His name is RICKY, and he is wearing a red shirt. He has a look in his eyes that both exudes confidence and tells of a certainty of where he is going. The next shot reveals his target destination, a table where SPOCK and UHURA are sitting next to one another, and on the opposite end is a lonely CHEKOV. RICKY sits right next the CHEKOV. CHEKOV looks RICKY's way as he sits down, and CHEKOV's face lights up, but he immediately feels eyes on him and he retracts his expression, and then looks at RICKY and gives him a very serious and professional nod.

CHEKOV
Hello.

RICKY
Hi there.

Something in RICKY's face looks confused, though he can't take his eyes off of CHEKOV. He smirks, but his obvious train of thought is interrupted by one SPOCK.

SPOCK
Pardon me, but I do not believe we are aquatinted, Ensign.

RICKY looks taken aback. He darts a quick glance at SPOCK.

RICKY
Pardon me, Commander. I'm Ensign Richard, but most people call me Ricky.

RICKY darts his gaze back to CHEKOV, who blushes. SPOCK and UHURA exchange curious glances. CHEKOV clears his throat.

CHEKOV
Ahem. Richard, you know Commander Spock, and this is Lieutenant Uhura.

RICKY
I'm aware.

CHEKOV clears his throat again. He obviously feels very awkward.

SPOCK
Ensign Richard. You have interrupted a dialogue that was taking place between myself, the lieutenant, and the ensign on private matters. Unless you have pertinent information to share with the Ensign or us, I suggest you remove yourself from this table.

This finally gets RICKY to look at SPOCK directly.

RICKY
Excuse me? This is a free hall, so if you have "private matters" then why don't you take them up somewhere that's actually private?

SPOCK
This hall happened to be where the matters surfaced. Now, I will ask you cordially one more time--

RICKY
And if I don't?

This gives SPOCK pause. He looks down briefly and then back up at RICKY.

SPOCK
Failure to oblige in my request will be subject to--

UHURA
Enough. Chekov?

UHURA is giving CHEKOV a stern but understanding look. She seems to know what is going on here.

CHEKOV
Richard, please remowe yourself. I will come find you later.

RICKY looks hurt at this. He quickly stands up and leaves the table, and walks off screen.

SPOCK
Now--

UHURA suddenly hits SPOCK on the shoulder.

UHURA
Could you have been more rude?

SPOCK
I was merely--

UHURA
No you were not, the boy was just coming to say hello to Chekov here, and you were being rude to him

SPOCK
The logic behind such an action is fruitless. Unless the Ensign had something important matters to attend to--

UHURA
What if he did? He just didn't get to them yet. Better yet, you come say hello to me all the time.

SPOCK
That is a different matter, given our personal affairs.

UHURA
What about---

CHEKOV gives a sort of half cough, as to re-acknowledge his presence. The CAMERA suddenly realizes he's there again, as it has been solely on SPOCK and UHURA. The CAMERA looks in between the shoulders of SPOCK and UHURA at a downcast CHEKOV, who is staring at his food, not eating it. The twain consider CHEKOV for a moment.

SPOCK
If you would clarify, Ensign, what is the nature of the r--

All of a sudden, BOOM! There is a big crash and the lights flicker and sparks start to fly. A voice comes over the intercomm.

VOICE
This is the bridge. All personnel report immediately to your posts. There is a situation, and we've run into an unknown but aggressive and offensive vessel. Repeat, all personnel report immediately to your posts. There is a situation, and we've run into an unknown but aggressive and offensive vessel.

There is a scurrying flurry of activity as everyone calmly but hurriedly runs to their stations. CHEKOV, UHURA, and SPOCK all three head immediately for the bridge.

CHEKOV
(under breath)
Ricky...

UHURA apparently notices, because she gives him a worried glance as they hurry to the lift.

UHURA
Remember your job, Chekov.

She almost gives herself away, but manages to keep her sympathy balanced with a professional attitude. Because UHURA is a badass.

INT - ENTERPRISE: LIFT - NIGHT
The three enter the lift and all ride in silence as they depart to face an unknown enemy. Close up on CHEKOV's face. He looks worried, but he quickly takes a deep breath and removes it from his system. He closes his eyes for a moment, re-opens them, and nods.

CHEKOV
I'm ready.

The lift door opens. They exit.

INT - ENTERPRISE: BRIDGE - NIGHT
A scene goes here, but I don't have the time to write it out, but it basically goes like this -- KIRK acknowledges their presence and gets them all to work. Everyone works together to fight against the enemy vessel. It is captured and it surrenders. After it surrenders though, it fires one last big shot which hits the ship, although it is a cheap shot because the enemy weapon systems is damaged. KIRK gets pissed and has torpedos fire upon the vessel, which is instantly destroyed. CHEKOV is professional but obviously worried this whole time. KIRK asks medical to give a report on the wounded, and it totals to about 50 personnel wounded, one dead. Through a slight discovery process, we found out that it was RICKY who bit the bullet. CHEKOV puts his head on his station, looking upset, then stands up and looks toward the command chair.

CHEKOV
Captain, permission to be relieved?

KIRK
Why?

CHEKOV
Personal reasons, sir.

KIRK
I need a better reason than that, Chekov.

UHURA
Sir, I think that Ricky was---

CHEKOV
He was my boyfriend, captain.

A sullen hush befalls the bridge. No one moves, and everyone looks at KIRK and CHEKOV at this moment. KIRK considers CHEKOV for a moment, and then with a sudden wave of compassion, moves toward CHEKOV and gives him a really big hug. CHEKOV looks shocked at first, but then slowly moves his arms up to KIRK's shoulders and leans his head down, and CHEKOV begins to cry.

Scene.

Okay, so I'm sorry, but that scene has been in my mind for about three weeks and I had to get it out. This thread may not be the proper place for it, but in the spirt of this article I think it's okay.

I'm going to be contacting this guy soon... I just hope I can come off professional enough.

[Elle]

Geez Lance...that was...really sad...
And yeah, this guy seems like he could help us. ^_^

[Andrina]

Wow Lance, you would make a great script writer! It is so sad, poor Chekov :(
Yay for Kirk's compassion though. I hope this person gets on board with us.

[art.nerd]

Jeez, Lance...that was really good. :)
Are you a writer?

[KirkSpirkSporkKockSpock]

What bugs me about the thought of the next movie including prominent gay characters that aren't Kirk and Spock is that K/S was intended right from the very beginning.

It'd be like remaking Romeo and Juliet and having the love story be between Mercutio and the Nurse instead.
There's just something so, I dunno...not fair about it.


Other random thoughts:

-A huge point of the whole thing was that they were the absolute LEAD characters in the whole show.

-If they went with Sulu/Chekov or something, that would be fantastic for gay representation, but then we'd NEVER get the chance to see Kirk/Spock.

-But on the other hand if we know that K/S will never happen in the new movies, then that might make it more probable for TOS Kirk and Spock to finally be outed. Like, "So the new Kirk and Spock aren't a romantic interest...but the original ones sure as shit were."

-I think if some other major series outed main characters first, it'd be easier for K/S to do the same thing. For example: If House/Wilson ended up together, that would be freaking HUGE and could pave the way for something even more earth shattering like K/S.

[Pirate College Graduate]

I love your points KirkSpirk,etc. They are mine, basically, written by a different person. In some way, shape, or form, K/S needs to be discussed. Sadly, the one person who had the MOST authority in all of this has passed, but he left us enough evidence to build our case.

Do we know it will never happen in the movies? Oh boy, you had me panic for a second. Phew, I'm alright. If we get enough to sign, you never know...

Also, out of curiosity, is House/Wilson canon, or is it simply a friendship that people ship? K/S actually has canon merit, and I wasn't sure if House/Wilson did. I thought he was with...Cuddy? I don't watch the show enough to know names. Just curious.

Lindsay

[aolian]

Wooo, I'm so excited to see this article! :) To know that the writers are aware and supportive of this is really encouraging, as well as seeing that other fans don't want to see the minor-gay-character pitfall.


Also, out of curiosity, is House/Wilson canon, or is it simply a friendship that people ship? K/S actually has canon merit, and I wasn't sure if House/Wilson did. I thought he was with...Cuddy? I don't watch the show enough to know names. Just curious.

I know the showrunners of 'House' are aware of the House/Wilson vibe and encourage the subtext, but I don't think they plan on making it canon. They've hinted at House/Cuddy but it turned out to be a hallucination (spoiler). I think David Shore (the House creator) even mentioned at one point that he thinks House/Wilson would be 'better left to fanfic writers', so I don't know that there's a lot of hope for that actually happening, sadly.

[Lindz]

Also, out of curiosity, is House/Wilson canon, or is it simply a friendship that people ship? K/S actually has canon merit, and I wasn't sure if House/Wilson did. I thought he was with...Cuddy? I don't watch the show enough to know names. Just curious.

Lindsay

I've tried to figure out House/Wilson for a while now, and it isn't nearly as canon as K/S is. It seems a lot more like a friendship that people ship, especially because I see so much House/Cuddy subtext...

[Sussy]

Wooo, I'm so excited to see this article! To know that the writers are aware and supportive of this is really encouraging, as well as seeing that other fans don't want to see the minor-gay-character pitfall.

I feel...hopeful :D

[aolian]

Eep, so this is more than a little overdue, but credit goes to sunhawk for posting the original thread with the link to this article!

(The original thread doesn't seem to be around any more, unfortunately... I think it might have gotten lost in the recent forum shuffle.)

[sunhawk]

Eep, so this is more than a little overdue, but credit goes to sunhawk for posting the original thread with the link to this article!

(The original thread doesn't seem to be around any more, unfortunately... I think it might have gotten lost in the recent forum shuffle.)

Thanks for that, I appreciate it :)

[originalpuck]

Lance, that was really beautiful. I'm sniffling on my side of the computer for poor Ricky - what a horrible way to go, being all bitter at Chekov. And gosh, even worse for Chekov, since the last thing he did was basically tell his BF to get lost, even if only temporarily. *sniffs*

And I completely agree with Lance that having a queer character wouldn't change them, just add to them. I think, Oni, that you agree, but I can't be sure - you seem to be saying that bisexuality is okay, but that characters with previously straight dalliances would not be allowed to be gay in your eyes? I find that to be a but problematic, both in terms of in-universe situations and film-wise.

Rarely is it explained in canon when or if someone is straight, so if we're going for the 'normalizing' of the whole thing, I would prefer that it happened without some big declaration of sexuality. I'd like to think that in the 23rd century it's no longer neccesary to broadcast one's orientation (then again, that might actually just be optimism on my part, no sarcasm intended).

I've written an essay on this topic before, but I find character's orientations to be a very muddy area. Mostly, fans tend to assume an orientation by creating a false straight/gay dichotomy. There also tends to be a lot of mistaken belief that sexuality isn't fluid, or that coming out is a simple process that always happens when one is young.

On top of that, there are plenty of characters in AOS who haven't had a single romance shown or referenced in the new films, such as Chekov, Sulu, Scotty, Keenser, Pike, etc. They could fall anywhere on the spectrum, and not have to work with any sort of previous AOS canon. I could see their Reboot selves being different from their TOS selves, anyways, since this is supposed to be AU. Perhaps something happened with Nero's ship and the alterations to the timeline it created that put one person in a different area, and had them fall for someone else, etc.

*Mumbles a bit about being displeased with the character bashing earlier in the thread, since I like nu!Uhura.*

Ahem. Back on topic for me, I swear, lols. I think it's great that the creators are open to this sort of thing, and it's extra great that several of the current actors have been involved in queer or queer-friendly media. Though to me the interview does seem like it's coming off a bit more 'well, we didn't KILL it,' instead of actively engaging and being for it. A subtle distinction, but definitely one that's there (after all, it would be bad PR to tell a blogger at one of the biggest gay websites around that they're never gonna put in queers, ever). Though I suppose I should be happy that they were willing to go far enough to say that it was possible in the next films.

[spookyfbi]

Oops, sorry Sunhawk! I edited the OP to fix it.

[sunhawk]

Oops, sorry Sunhawk! I edited the OP to fix it.

Thanks I appreciate it :)

[Lance]

Hey, sorry about the other thread. I actually deleted it for a very specific reason, so sorry your post got lost there, sunhawk.

I'm glad this thread is alive though. This article still gives me SO much hope.

Go SEE!

[DAzebras]

I agree. We should definitely get in contact with Michael Jensen and his partner, Brent Hartinger [who is a the fairly well known author of the Geography Club series].

Geting in contact with AfterElton in general is a good idea.

[f4ngy]

-a little bit late- I just read the scene you wrote Lance and that was awesome *o*!! Very sad though, but still. I actually liked how you wrote Spock/Uhura it was cute :) Uhura's like ":mad:*pwns Spock*"